First of all, I collected some info about other posts, but it's a bit mixed up, so if u guys can make it together here, I would appreciate.

Well, I already played a bit with dagger classes, but since the incomming chronicles a lot of things have changed. I did have to stop playing for while, so I lost a lot of changes and tips.

I wanna know, peacefully, opinions about experienced players who have already played with daggers (I mean any type AW/PW/TH). And what are the pro's and con's for this class nowadays (Interlude/Ct1). I would prefer opinions about PVP especially, cuz PVE is easy to learn again =p

So, if they are still good to pwn mages and archers, and if they can pwn heavy armor user (destro/DA/glad), and how can I do that. In my time the best dyes were +dex-str/+con -str, those dyes still work efficiently?

obs: I played with TH lvl 79 (MJ light +4/Demons MM +4/SS +crt DMG) 7x server

Thanks for all.

Okay... The first thing you wanna know is that those dyes aren't available anymore. Since c5, there's a chance you do a CRIT skill, and that chance is influenced by str. Thus, you can't afford to drop too much str from your dagger.
The proper dye setup would be +5 con/dex (your choice) and -5 str and that's IT. No more -9 str. I play an aw, and i have to say, i don't use any dyes except +5 wit -5 int. Imo the aw is well balanced. That 41 str is his strong point.

Now... Daggers are still based on the same direction. Th is built for resistance and tricks to deceive the enemy and he has a lot of pve useful skills (by that i mean target cancelling), the pw is built for killing, but has a fair share of pve skills, while the aw is built for pure damage dealing, his pve skills are few. His skills are oriented for damage.

By pve performance:
1. AW (hex is all)
2. TH (strong passives)
3. PW (critical chance passive, but nothing else to fuel the melee damage)

TH
The th has had a nice evolution since c4. In interlude he got mirage, which is a 1 minute buff. When an enemy attacks you there's a chance his target state will be removed.

PW
The pw's evolution was good, he got mortal strike in c5, a buff that increases blow land rate. The only problem is that he lacks blow damage... Not a great combo with focus death (-30% damage from front). In Interlude he got evade, which gives him the possibility to evade an incoming skill.

AW
The aw's evolution is good, just like the pw. He got mortal strike in c5, like the pw. But he has critical power passive, so it compensates for the -30% damage from front that the focus death gives. In interlude he got counterattack, which reflects an incoming skill.

About focuses: the aw is the most earned with focus death. The th's focuses are not great, so he relies on backstabbing, and the pw doesn't have enough critical power. But still, the pw is a greater damage dealer than the th (in pvp speaking).
In the interlude skill, the th's mirage is surely the best. Evade and counterattack sound the same to me, even if some say evade is better.
All daggers got critical wound in CT1, and expose weakpoint in hb. These two debuffs increase the critical damage a target takes. Again, the most earned dagger is the aw.


OVERALL: the best damage dealer is the aw without one question. Hex + critical wound + expose weak point. Get behind your target and backstab. You damage will go insane. His critical power passive fuels focus death FROM BEHIND (+90% damage from behind), it also fuels hex, critical wound and expose weak point. If you crit with backstab with all those debuffs on an enemy it's bad. 1 hit kill on mage without a question.

The balanced dagger would be the th, because of his deceiving skills and high hp. But his damage output is low.

The pw is the second damage dealer after the aw.

Do not ignore these daggers. While pvp-ing an aw keep focused, because if you lose your target, you need to retarget fast or you will receive serious damage. While pvp-ing a th, you need to keep your target on him and hit him ONLY with high-power shots. Vs a pw, it's about the same story as the aw. Don't show your back to him.

PW/AW mortal strike : increase chances to crit on blows.

wasn't it increase chance of LANDING blows? O_o

No . I tought that me too for a while, but some ppl opened my eyes. And btw isn't a little strange that mortal strike appeared in c5 like critical on skills?

After these few updates in CT1 + I get to believe that TH is the best dagger user now.

TH:
HP+CP: 6 - 6.5k ( no dyes/no buff )

attack speed: the fastest atack speed of all daggers ( slight reuse advantage )

speed: highest - prety much independent of suroundings not like AW and PW

blow land rate: TH has his advantages he is more like the "head to head" dagger he can land some prety nice skills not only from the back ( critical blow incresed blow land rate + focus chance ( another increase in land rate ) u can also invest in blow power if u want focus power ( regardless from position ) exiting adventure + crit wound ( like the other daggers )

evasion: not a big difference in all the classes 116 ( no dyes/no buff )

Target cancel: now thats the best point of the th he has 3 skills to cancel your target - trick , swith , mirrage. its prety had to keep your target on him

So basicly TH doesn`t have to go behind u to kill u, dont get me wrong i hate THs but that doesn`t make him the easiest and most effisient dagger to use inthese days.

And BTW expose weak point increase crit atack rate of normal atacks not skills, so unless u use it for PVE it wont do u much good

I don't know who convinced you, but on gamegate i used to play only with mortal strike, and i used to have success. I've made tests on more servers.
But you can even see it with your bear eye, that in c4 with focus death, you still missed some shots, but with both focus death and ms in interlude, the chance of missing a blow is low. Much lower than c4.


Decreases pdef also. So it has the same effect on blow damage.

Hmm, thx for all replyes till now. And for the one's who still play dagger on ct1/interlude. I wanna know how's the average damage of skills in mages (lvl ~78 A grade items PP/Dances). I used to hit A-grade mages with about 5~6k with SS + Crt Dmg.

I read that in interlude/Ct1 dagger damage was a bit lowered (comparing to C3/C4) due to instant kill (BS on hp). Is that correct?

And for now, Dex doesnt influence in skill land rate anymore. So wich dye shall I use: +5con or +5dex (PvP)?

And how about Vs tanker/gladi/destroyer. we hit about 1~1,5k of dmg per skill? Can we still have a good chance of pwning these classes in pvp?

About pvp, I would want to know VS other classes than dagger(DD/Nukers/Tankers), so u guys can skip Dagger vs Dagger.

Thank you all.

Well the crt damage WAS lowered a bit, but they added critical skills. This was done to nerf the archers.
+dex is for chasers. I tend not to use it, the gained speed isn't exactly a matter of life and death. So you can go for +con if you really want dyes.
What chronicle were you playing when you left? 5-6k dmg isn't exactly plausible in c4 or so.
Vs a tank, full buffed... Maybe 1k per hit. Maybe more, but it depends. If it's an sk/tk, expect your damage to be lower, because their shield def rate is more potent. Vs tank, yes, you can pwn them. But watch the sk. It's the dagger's natural enemy.

Now...
Vs archers, you have the advantage, high evasion and acrobatic move.
Vs nukers the point is to get there as fast as you can and to try to trick those 3 crucial debuffs: anchor, CoD and slow.

And for armro set, stick with majestic lig (Higher pdef +mana and stun resist) or go for DC light?

But if some1 knows wich is the average dmg in a-grade mages? (I mean SS + PP buffs). Is it about 2k (4k critical?). The critical hit is double of normal dmg?

And I heard that they modified lethal strike, there's 3~4 types of lethals, right?

Thank you all.

No, there are 2 types of lethals, but they do land more often.
Lethal effect 1: Cp = 0, full hp. If cp is already 0 or under 100 (i checked this recently) it takes variable amount of hp (usually around 1/4).
Lethal effect 2: Cp = 0, Hp = 1.

In ss + pp buffs, you may hit for 1.5k, not exactly 2k, because dance of fire is missing. If you get dance of fire and blessing of queen, it may jump to 2.5k+.
Normal skill critical (unbuffed) means 2x damage. Buffed, they add the buffs, so you can get even 3x damage.

Stick to mj light. It's very important not to get stunned. For example in pvp dagger. Some siucidal AWs that go on -9 con (this is usually when they are at soloing, this setup is good there), they get my bluff stun maybe 30% of the times. Maybe more.

The other 2 are in PvE system. lethal A: 50%hp
lethal B: 1hp

Actually, there is only one more in pve. The second that you posted can be found in pvp too. That makes a total of 3. Anyway...

For example , i was yesterday with a dagger party PI at T'rex LS.
And they gived 2 types of lethals.. 1 with 50% hp , 2'nd one with 1hp on T-Rex.

Trex is is like a RB u cant leatel him to 1 HP where do u play ?