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 Post subject: Re: DARK AVENGER-HELL KNIGHT---->PVP QUESTION ! ! !
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 10:59 pm 
Baron
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Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:20 am
Posts: 254
Icarus wrote:
If that's what you can tell us about that class, you have much more to learn.
Side note: pala isn't as imbalanced as you might think. Pala can easily lose versus other beasts. Pala has a good chance to lose vs titans, vs duelists, vs tyrants. I invite you to play paladin some day in oly. Once I thought the same as you and made a pala. In oly I literally sucked because I didn't know its limits and weaknesses. It's not that easy.

Da is not a weak class. You have to know how to play it. But a good player owns more with a paladin or sk than with a DA. That's because the class is weaker on certain aspects.
Stop crapping around with that summon. It dies in a few hits in freya, even enchanted.
Health SA not good? What the fuck are you talking about? ALWAYS start with a health weapon and switch to focus/haste when your hp drops below the bonus from health. One thing I bet you didn't know: on paladin/tk health weapons are incredibly important, since they help tol give more heal. There are many small things that people ignore. But take one small thing here, one small thing there, one from the other there and if you add them up you get a big bonus.
Aq+baium+zaken are obligatory if you wanna go oly farming. And you can't spam aggro too much because you'll end up having no mana. And about enchanting skills: you DONT go oly without your most important skills enchanted. You think in interlude I'm going to oly with my sk w/o my hex and sting +10 chance and my guard stance +1 cost? Hell no. Those are essential.

And don't bring augments into the equation.. If we take it like that, I can get an active solar flare on my sk, get a fucking arcana mace and take down anything that moves.

Btw: wtf are you saying about soul hounds getting overbuffed in oly..? Am I missing smth?

1st not all p-layers can afford 2 x weapon with Sa and jumping with some LOL B blunt+hp sounds rly funny.I believe every normal player would preffer 1 good enchanted weapon than using 2 weapons +3. If U mean FB+health y its good to use alltrough U wont basicly do nothing to your oponent with it.
2nd I didnt spoke only for oly about the soulhounds thing. I ment normal pvp in famr area.Now I believe U get what I mean.
3rd Most ppl play new chronicles where enchanted skills are not something so big but more like normal part of the game (even if the server is x5 its not so LOL big challenge to go to 82-84 lvl and make skills +10+++
4th I didns said I am too pro DA and this is nott I say from this char but I dont think I should say obvious things like "While U are in UD spam drain health or heal yourself etc..."
5th: About palas: I played that class but it turned to be not my type...From my short experience I will agree that pala is not so imba and its true that it has weak sides too.BTW TYR/GLAD pwning tank shouldnt be so surpising to no1(not only oly I mean)


P.S. L2 is game based 60% on gear so all of this spam makes non-sence if U dont have good equiped char (weapon is not the only thing U can make+++)

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Last edited by DemonTempesT on Thu May 05, 2011 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: DARK AVENGER-HELL KNIGHT---->PVP QUESTION ! ! !
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 11:13 pm 
Knight

Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:22 pm
Posts: 85
Icarus wrote:
Why would he go focus? Pre-AI means he gets full hp anyway, so why not kick that extra damage while under that extra hp? That's a huge head start. It's like this:

Note: this is a purely theoretical example.
Pala with 10k hp pre-ai kicks in 235 dps (focus)
Pala with 12.5k hp pre-ai kicks in 200 dps (health).

So until the pala with health gets his hp down to 10k he would have already kicked in alot of damage. And from then he basically becomes the first pala from the example, with 10k hp, but alot of damage was already dealt.

I don't know if you understand what I mean. You have a huge advantage margin if you start off with health and switch to focus.


rofl, welcome to 2 or 3 years ago


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 Post subject: Re: DARK AVENGER-HELL KNIGHT---->PVP QUESTION ! ! !
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 8:41 am 
Duke
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+25% hp for free damage to the enemy. That's not 2-3 years ago, that's being fucking smart unlike most of the current freya fanbois who don't know how to get an advantage over the enemy. Neurons in your brain tend to focus more on drama queening because of losing instead of thinking about how to squeeze more out of your class. Have fun doing that.

DemonTempesT wrote:
1st not all p-layers can afford 2 x weapon with Sa and jumping with some LOL B blunt+hp sounds rly funny.I believe every normal player would preffer 1 good enchanted weapon than using 2 weapons +3. If U mean FB+health y its good to use alltrough U wont basicly do nothing to your oponent with it.
2nd I didnt spoke only for oly about the soulhounds thing. I ment normal pvp in famr area.Now I believe U get what I mean.
3rd Most ppl play new chronicles where enchanted skills are not something so big but more like normal part of the game (even if the server is x5 its not so LOL big challenge to go to 82-84 lvl and make skills +10+++
4th I didns said I am too pro DA and this is nott I say from this char but I dont think I should say obvious things like "While U are in UD spam drain health or heal yourself etc..."
5th: About palas: I played that class but it turned to be not my type...From my short experience I will agree that pala is not so imba and its true that it has weak sides too.BTW TYR/GLAD pwning tank shouldnt be so surpising to no1(not only oly I mean)


P.S. L2 is game based 60% on gear so all of this spam makes non-sence if U dont have good equiped char (weapon is not the only thing U can make+++)

What do you mean not all players afford 2 weapons? On dex a top weapon costs about as much as an s-grade weapon used to cost back in interlude. Then I ask you this: why did I afford two s-grade weapons EVEN BACK IN C4 on my sk? There's no such thing as 'can't afford'. It's only 'I'm too lazy to make it'.
1 enchanted weapon vs 2 +3 weapons. Who sais you will have +3 if you have two weapons? I'd get one enchanted weapon and then farm for a +3 health weapon.
You're not in oly.. So what? The advantage doesn't magically dissapear outside of the oly arena. You can use it in oly, in open pvp, in sieges, in duels, EVERYWHERE.
Why are you telling me about how easy skill enchantment is? I know that.

We all know gear means much in l2, but for the sake of the argument, we're assuming they are all as equipped as possible.

7r0yan wrote:
I know what you mean ;]
but this bit of hp can be easily healed by sacrifice, so you dont need to have very high max hp, and moreover when your on AI you use blunt ;]

i dont know about sk and da, but for tk and pala max hp aint that important since they can heal themselves easily.
Yes, they would heal more with health weapon, but mostly if you lose with these classes its lose by dmg, you prolly won't get killed anyway

I know it can be healed by sacrifice. But the point is that you still get an advantage by starting with a health weapon. If you want to win you'll want to get every advantage you can, because it does matter. I have lost dozens of pvps to a 100-500 hp difference, and if I had used the small advantages I would have won them.

Sure, if you're not a farmer it's totally not worth it. But when I get my top-grade gear and go for pvp I get bored in max a week and start farming again. I have to combine pvp and farm or else I get bored.

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What off platform you dog? Off platform hasn't been a thing in years this game is only playable using Java and if you believe otherwise you're too stupid because every server you played has been Java

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 Post subject: Re: DARK AVENGER-HELL KNIGHT---->PVP QUESTION ! ! !
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 4:48 pm 
Baron
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Dont feel unique...all have to make pvp/pve combination...In-fact thats l2's idea. And top equipment is verry sommon to be said. I give U fresh example: x10-x20 server:Top equipment is dynasty set for example in epi server (not all players can afford to collect vesper ). if set is +3 for the 1st month it looks good...but after 2 months much ppl allready have sets+6...so ur Top is now common gear...U need to work it. Same goes for weapons.U go to oly,start a fight with some dyna sword+hp+3 cause of HP SA right?Ye cool but your main weapon is icarus saysword+7/8+f witch is good gear.What the hell U gonna do with dyna sword+hp vs some enemy with dyna heavy set+6+7 for example? Kill him with laugh?U are gonna hit him for rly good 30-40 DMG and all U gonna get is wasted dyna sword and wasted cry lvl 14...I see things that way and if U think a bit more U will see I am right (if server is x3-x4 y I agree that 2 weapons are usefull)
About taking a bit of bonus from here and a bit of there U have a point. Its good to use even smal advantages if only that doesnt makes U loose % of the main golas of ur class.

P.S. Now if U tell me after U make good sword+focus U gonna farm for sword+hp++++ I will have ABSOLUTLY no comment.

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l2 Cerberus: DraconiaN lvl 83 HE - offline
l2 RPG-club x15: GhostHunteR lvl 83 - offline
l2 Extreme x5 DraconiaN lvl 79 GK - OFF/deleted!!! I NEVER GO L2J!!!


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 Post subject: Re: DARK AVENGER-HELL KNIGHT---->PVP QUESTION ! ! !
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 4:52 pm 
Grand Duke
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DemonTempesT wrote:
sommon


Image

???

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 Post subject: Re: DARK AVENGER-HELL KNIGHT---->PVP QUESTION ! ! !
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 6:12 pm 
Marquis
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Icarus, ur kinda wrong ^^


as i said, lose as tank is prolly lose by dmg. Using health weapon will lower your dps(greatly), so it means your enemy has to deal less dmg to win by it.
If you wanna rape on oly, you gotta have also oed bow, so it's third weapon to oe, make atrri and add SA. It's ofc possible to do, but it requires cash :> Pala also need blunt...

and hp isn't that important for tanks, the only one problem is some skills eat/require hp, so if you need to be lower than 30% it can be dangerously low amount.

btw:

DemonTempesT wrote:
verry sommon


^^

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 Post subject: Re: DARK AVENGER-HELL KNIGHT---->PVP QUESTION ! ! !
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 9:07 pm 
Marquis
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U argue about classes who dominate lol :D
SK= insane dmgs
Pala = almost unkillable + insane dmgs
HK = u wont know when u get debuffed and fked
TK= DIE PLEASE!!!

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 Post subject: Re: DARK AVENGER-HELL KNIGHT---->PVP QUESTION ! ! !
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 9:40 pm 
Duke
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@DemonTempesT: don't exaggerate, just cuz the weapon has health doesn't mean it deals 0 dmg. Since you're a tank, that 25% extra hp means something since tanks don't exactly die too easily.

7r0yan wrote:
Icarus, ur kinda wrong ^^


as i said, lose as tank is prolly lose by dmg. Using health weapon will lower your dps(greatly), so it means your enemy has to deal less dmg to win by it.
If you wanna rape on oly, you gotta have also oed bow, so it's third weapon to oe, make atrri and add SA. It's ofc possible to do, but it requires cash :> Pala also need blunt...

and hp isn't that important for tanks, the only one problem is some skills eat/require hp, so if you need to be lower than 30% it can be dangerously low amount.

btw:

DemonTempesT wrote:
verry sommon


^^

I don't get your point. What do you mean by 'the enemy has to deal less dmg to win by it'?

I don't get it why you guys don't understand.. It's practically FREE dmg. I'll give it one more try, this time with a complex example.
10k hp tank, 250 dps with focus. (although the difference isn't that much)
12.5k hp tank, 200 dps with health.
Let's assume he has 2.5k cp.

Let's calculate how much damage they're dealing UNTIL their hp drops to 10k. Let's assume that they lose 2.5k hp/cp once in 30 seconds.

Focus tank deals 235 x 30 = 7050 total damage.
Health tank deals 200 x 30 = 6000 total damage, BUT he still has 12.5k hp. He has 2.5k hp left until he hits 10k. That means another 6k dmg. So he deals 12000 dmg.

So far we have:
a 10k hp tank with focus which dealt 7050 dmg.
a 10k hp tank which used health and dealth 12000 dmg. This tank now switches to FOCUS and their dps will be exactly the same.

Since they die they will deal 235dmg x 120seconds = 28200.

BOTTOM LINE:
Tank with focus dealt 28200 + 7050 = 35250 dmg.
Tank with health which later switched to focus dealt 40200 dmg.

That is the advantage I'm talking about. If we transcribe it in normal terms, the tank will probably deal 30-40 health and 40-45 with focus, so just divide that by about 5 to get normal damage. We'll get 7050 for the focus tank and 8040 for the health tank. Since the hp I calculated with is damn high, divide by 1.5. 4700 vs 5360. Around 600 dmg difference from a simple switch of a weapon. These results should be at least roughly accurate.



That is not a damage margin anyone should completely ignore.

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<reddit rando> wrote:
What off platform you dog? Off platform hasn't been a thing in years this game is only playable using Java and if you believe otherwise you're too stupid because every server you played has been Java

fosho!


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 Post subject: Re: DARK AVENGER-HELL KNIGHT---->PVP QUESTION ! ! !
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 9:46 pm 
Forum Troll
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didnt read the whole discussion but who gives 2 sh*ts about focus?
icarus hammer+rsk focus=win anyway...


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 Post subject: Re: DARK AVENGER-HELL KNIGHT---->PVP QUESTION ! ! !
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 11:06 pm 
Marquis
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I meant if i have less dps, its easier for enemy to deal more than I dealt.
Epic calculations xD

I didn't understand them all, so i can't argue too much xd


it's wrong somewhere, gonna find it soon


edit:


K, everything i got from this is tank with health vs tank with focus with normal hits health one wins.

but u use skills, on AI/FI if you crit(which happens obviously more often with focus weapon)
you deal much more dmg since it increases ur crit dmg.

and it's not about survivaliblity, you not gonna get killed anyway. You calculations would work if tanks couldn't heal themselves.

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<3 clueless ppl.Check again smartass.Str does not pattk.



Icarus wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: DARK AVENGER-HELL KNIGHT---->PVP QUESTION ! ! !
PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 11:55 pm 
Baron
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U made me push things into it so I checked how other ppl see DA. Most ppl advice to use focus but allmost nowhere I say infos for weapon switches. BTW Godsend we talk about DA not pal...I dont rly think rsk SA would be that good for it.More likely if U got weapon with anger I would 100% go for it to test how is it.BTW calculation rly loled me :) But in l2 on theory lots of things sounds good while in practic pvp it turnes out rly different.When I get a bit more free time I will test all those stuff with a friend so for nowI wont say if Icarus is right more than me. /End for now

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l2 RPG-club x15: GhostHunteR lvl 83 - offline
l2 Extreme x5 DraconiaN lvl 79 GK - OFF/deleted!!! I NEVER GO L2J!!!


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 Post subject: Re: DARK AVENGER-HELL KNIGHT---->PVP QUESTION ! ! !
PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2011 8:41 am 
Duke
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Troyan we were talking about hk :D
On a pala it's probably not worth it since you're gonna get some real benefits out of that focus. It will probably end in a tie anyway.

@demon: let me know when you're gonna make the tests.

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What off platform you dog? Off platform hasn't been a thing in years this game is only playable using Java and if you believe otherwise you're too stupid because every server you played has been Java

fosho!


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